Monday, June 06, 2005

Entrance takes Exit

Im so happy that if you would come to my home, Ill give you fresh Bengali sweets.
Reason : Tamil Nadu abolishes common entrance test

This is a respectable move provided, Single Window System still stands good. The reason why Iam happy, and how I can justify them are as follows.

When I completed my +2, we had a Rank order in the class after results. And the rank order never got disturbed even after adding the TNPCEE marks. Whats the difference it makes. Entrance Exam is no more a filtering criteria. Everyone has a B.E seat. Why should students spend nearly Rs. 5000 on a extra Entrance Coaching class, Extra travel to a useless college in some outermost circle of chennai, Extra application forms, and Tons of unwanted Tension.

+2 Exam is supposed to weigh a persons ability to do his degree. Why would Anna University have to doubt the credibility of the exam, by having another one added to it.

But talking about Rural students getting benefitted out of this move is ambiguous. Another problem will be faced by CBSE students. CBSE +2 scores arent that high, so they compensate on TNPCEE marks to get euivalently competitive Cut-off. Now thats void.

There are many Cons for this legal decision. Yet, I wave my hats off for the bold / boldest move made by the Chief Minister.

Open for a debate... Voice out by clicking on Comments.


The One said...

Wish they had done this just 9 years back when I finished +2. Damn!!!

Now, will she abolish the reservation as well? Maybe not, since I feel this move has been done keeping in mind the coming elections...

thennavan said...

I think it is a good move too. BTW, Keerthi reg. your question on my comments box, I would like to say that the particular line you mentioned is my favorite too and is used in homams for "Poorna Aahuti" but I am sorry to say that I am nowhere near the class of a Pundit to interpret that. However, if you beat me to it (in terms of deciphering it from someone knowledgeable), I would like to hear the same from you. Thanks :-)

Krithika said...

Agree with 'The one' on the move being associated with the elections. And no, I don't agree to the abolishment of Entrance exams. Why do people think IITians are so formidable? Because of their entrance test. Considered as the most difficult one to crack. As a result only the best brains - the brains that are suited for a hard academic life as an Engineer - get into the IITs. The reservations and now the abolishment of the entrance exam assures every single Plus Two student an engineering seat. What the state govt doesn't realize is that later on, after joining the college, many including students from rural, semi-urban and urban areas irrespecive of any difference will find the Engg syllabus hard; only because the Plus Two exam doesn't test any application skills, and problem solving capacity is very essential right from the first semester of the (revised) Anna Univ syllabus. The abolishing act is not a reform. It's just the beginning. A lot more has to follow. It doesn't stop right here.

keerthi said...

Mr. One,
Curses for our misluck. But, Reservation system will take a century to get erased.

Will mail you what i know about that.

IIT entrance exams remain intact. They are not removed from existance. That is the filtering criteria for IIT College.
But Anna University is conducting an entrance exam for say 3 lakh people, with more than 3 lakh B.E seats. Everyone who has eligibility can win a BE seat. Only the college he gets into matters. Well, that probably can be well governed by taking off the Entrance Exams. Now the colleges can be equally distributed. Not many chennai canditates will be in Venkateshwara college. Many people from Rural places can appear. Thats the beauty of Single Window System.

You know what, most of all these things, the Government should be severe on giving Autonomous Status to Colleges. Most of the Chennai Colleges became autonomous for no reason, except that it comes easily by bribing. How are most of the colleges ISO Certified, when they dont have proper Laboratory and many other facilities at first place.

Anbu said...

This policy is good but needs some reforms. As Krik says the Board exams don't test the application skills. But application skills are not in-born; they are acquired by good training and teaching. Urban students have the advantage over rural students here coz of good coaching in cities.

I suggest few reforms with this policy:

1. Better teaching at rural schools so that they acquire good application skills. This requires good teachers at both primary and secondary level. The salary of teaching community at rural areas could be increased and possibly allowance for teaching at rural schools so that good teachers take up the job.

2. I have no idea of state board exams since i did schooling from CBSE. But i have heard a bit of them. The board exams should not be merely memory tests. It should have bit of application tests too.

3.Normalise CBSE exams so that low marks aint a diasadvantage. This should not be difficult with little maths.

keerthi said...

Ok ! Good Point Anbu.
There was a point from Ramadoss. It was making me think.

In a State, why should there be Low class education, Middle Class Education and High Class Education.

Why should there be separate schools for State Board, Matriculation and CBSE ?

answer ?

tt_giant said...

hmm..not very sure if this is a good move. i had posted about this on my blog.
in any case.. here is the gist:
1. if you have good memorization skills, and are in state board (i was in it too), you can get almost 190+/200. i am conveniently ignoring CBSE mode, since they are a minority
2. there are a lot of students who can "acheive" this
3. until very recently (possibly even now), only text book questions were asked in exams. unlike questions asked in, say, math entrance (TNPCEE). so, if you have more space in your brains to memorize the "guide" or konar notes, you actually can score 200.
4. so where was the filtering made ? in the entrance, and of course, reservations.
5. lets look at the highest scores in bio entrance - 50/50. why? since there is no need to actually "understan" anything there.
6. although some quantitative questions are asked in physical sciences, students are still able to ace it, since, well, you got to give them credit. some students have understanding capabilities coupled with memorization skills.
7. math - sorry state. never has one been able to score 50/50. correct me if i am mistaken or misinformed.
8. the problem lies not in entrance exams, but in the foolishness of the govt. (past, present and maybe future) to have allowed the mushrooming of engineering colleges. 3 lakj students applying for > than 3 lakh engg. seats. what a shame.
9. all this, even before i broached the topic of reservation.
10. which I am not going to do so, since it hurts more and one can save it for discussion on a rainy day.
11. if india is just satisfied with producing more engg. graduates, the present system can hold fort. else, if we need quality, either

a) +2 exams must become more tougher and in which case entrance exams can go out the window or
b) +2 can stay the same old same, and entrance must get more tougher, with aptitude tests, etc.
c) AND both a) and b) with lesser engg. seats but abolishing colleges like E.H.G engg college (dang, there could actually be a colege with this name).

Shailendra said...

Death to the TNPCEE is a hasty decision, I feel. CBSE students are left in the lurch, and filtering process during admissions would be a pain. Now there would be a surge in students taking Sanskrit, German or French as they have a huge edge (if +2 marks are to be considered solely) over the students with Hindi or Tamil as second language. Competitiveness will die and what we will have in future is pseudo half-baked professionals. Lots of things needs to be addressed, and they are just complicating things. Competitiveness and "the fire in the belly" sort of feeling is lost for TN students.

tt_giant said...

well, shailendra - until now they were not considering marks in subjects other than math, bio, phy and chem. who knows in the future?

keerthi said...

Shailendra and Deepak, good points to note.

My questions to you.(Actually Shailendra and me are class mates.. so i have proof on the following.)
Im an average Doer at school and say I was 35 in a class of 70. Shylu was in a top-ten group.
We had our school +2 marks, and the pattern undisturbed.
We had our Entrance marks and Yet, the pattern remained Undisturbed.

Probably a minor difference.
I feel, with BE seats become so very easy these days, an Entrance Exam like this, is just a way to generate revenue.

Please understand - It could never be a filtering criteria, if all the people who write Entrance can get a BE seat. We have surplus seats.

It is just a deciding factor about the College. People want the best colleges.

What happened there, is another tragedy.
If you look at the best college to study, It has become a Deemed University.
You have to apply there again and write a Entrance Exam again. New application forms.

Loosing the meaning of Single Window System.. thats not fair.

I agree few people would struggle. Yet, This would eveolve into a better system.
Chaos initially, Peace shall appear eventually.

tt_giant said...

Some points to ponder

1. Anna univ has 2000 seats (all branches).
2. Under the new system, if 2500 people get 200/200 in +2 and for some WEIRD reason (I am not casteist, mind you).. all 2500 are OC. What happens then?
3. If the first 2000 students all get 200/200 AND are OC and the 2001th student gets 199/200 and is not OC. What happens then?
4. How does the "simple, straightforward" method which promises "peace" eventually work?

tt_giant said...

I agree with you on the "deemed univ" colleges. they are a pain.

keerthi said...


thats the same thing that is happening.

In Current System -
2000 OC Students get Cut off 298.5
2001 Non-OC student gets 298.0

what happens ?? same thing could happen without an Entrance Exam.

Im not telling, a commotion for a single seat is over. But it will remain with the same velocity, even without the Entrance Gimmick.

tt_giant said...

so, it does not make it any better. does it?
exactly my point.

tt_giant said...

only soln. is to make it more competitive, filter the hell out, reduce or better, abolish reservations.

keerthi said...

right Deepak.

it wont simplyfy the complications. But just the Extra effort and tension and money spending will be eliminated. Thats a lots of difference.

Cipher said...

Don't know how to take this.The state exam for sure doesn't test the students enough as entrance exam.
Bcos of the entrance exams students approach prof. & skilled staffs to learn.In a way this widens thier knowldege.
Getting 190+ is lot easier than 35+ in entrance.This case makes a difference where the student studies?

Zero said...

I think CBSE students are freed from the debacle of writing TNPCEE now.
Agreed, they can't crack centums as easily as we do here.
But, TNPCEE is so much based on TN syllabus verbatim, so that they mostly don't end up doing well (leave aside beat a fellow state-board guy) the TNPCEE.

IMHO, its a good move as it removes the redundancy as you pointed out. The talk about TNPCEE being the brainy thing in our admission is loose talk as it is still very clearly based/deep-rooted in the TN stateboard syllabus, but comes with a few twists any objective exam is supposed to carry with.
Regarding, rural students finding TNPCEE difficult but not TNHSE, I am missing something here... may be the training, Excel, IIPE and sorts churn out at urban centres.. Otherwise, TNPCEE has nothing great or difficult in it.

VeeKay said...

It is easy to get 200 in Class 12 these days. Mugging and vomitting will get one an engineering seat at Anna Univ. according to the new rule. Not good.

Aravind said...

I dont think it is a good idea to abolish TNPCEE offhand without considering the effects. However, I have been in state board and through entrance. All that should count in any event is, the intelligence of the student. It is immaterial if he is super rich or ultra poor, dregs of society or higher class. Entrace brought this equality somewhat. The board exam is neither scientific nor it tests the student skills and intelligence.

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